Trust and Honesty

     To preface my remarks I would like to quote from the BB. The first paragraph of chaper five (http://www.12step.org/Big-Book-Chapter-5.html) states:

     "Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with thems elves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average.There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest."

What is important to note is the main forcus - honesty. Honesty with ourselves, God and everyone else. This means that everything I say and do has to be held up against the mirror of honesty. This is not to say that I will go out of my way to tell somone something if I know it would harm them. This is honesty tempered by kindness.

     That being said - My name is Dennis and I am an alcoholic. At this point in my life I would not lie to anyone unless I thought the complete truth would do them harm. It is a function of my conscience, directed by God's will. Prior to my entering recovery, I was a drunk - whether I was drinking or not. If I thought it was to my advantage, I would lie about it. And yes - it became a habit to lie even when I had no reason to.

     It took me a period of conscious effort (maybe a couple of weeks), checking myself to stop the habitual lying and half-truths. There is a very good reason not to lie - I have nothing to hide. I can go to sleep at night and thank God for the day, review what I did and find I owe no amends for lying to anyone. I can wake up in the morning and look at myself in the mirror without cringing. I do not have to remember any lies to embellish. When I say something, people can trust that it is the truth as far as I am aware.

Falling back on that first paragraph in chapter five, this program is a house of cards built on the foundation of complete, utter and rigorous truth. If one's foundation is not built on this bedrock, I would fear for their recovery.

I really cannot relate much more on this. I have seen people fail in this program just because of this simple, but utterly humbling requirement. I've seen others turn it around and succeed because they were made aware of something they didn't even consciensly realize they were doing, Habits (good or bad) are just that.

Mayhaps someone else out there has a better way to relate this part of recovery?

Dennis

--------------------------------------------------------------
Mistaking life on life's terms

None

I can relate  with you on the whole trust issue. It's soo hard once your significant other makes you lose trust to get it back.. It makes you crazy trying to decipher if it's true or false what he says to you. I use the slogan Let go Let god. Keep praying  to your higher power..

--------------------------------------------------------------
Looking for the right Path....

Manipulation/Trust

How do we Trust the person that Manipulated us so badly? 

 Everything that came  out of my Husbands mouth was to work some sort of Manipulation to get whatever it was he wanted at the time.  Such a "ole Pro" at it I don't think he even realizes he was doing it sometimes.  What I mean by that is he beats around the bush" so to speak than just asking a SIMPLE question.  I used to just blow off the stupidity of it, then it was just humorous, then it was frustrating, then very irritating.  But just like his lying,  became about all the SIMPLE  things too.  Just the unimportant little stuff.

In my healing I believe that 'I let him do these things'  I didn't try to stop it, I didn't try to point it out to him'  and I didn't make any effort about getting us/him help with this.  Was this wrong?

I have made ammends with my part of the marriage failing,  Most importantly I have made ammends to ME.  I have forgiven the wrongs he did against me and to me.

We have been in contact with each other,  we have had a few very in depth conversations, we have expressed to each other how we still feel.(both still in love, and miss each other).  I believe him,  he has partially moved away from his "step 13",  I believe he is truely trying to stay sober,  I believe he is very sorry for his part in our marriage failing, I believe him when he tells me the "the other women was his biggest mistake he has ever made.    I believe everything he has told me.  Even his honesty about well basically leaving me for her. (that one hurt wasn't expecting that).  I just don't believe in the big picture of everything that some where in here he is manipulating me with something.  And out of everything (so far) he is lying about one thing.  I have tryed to give him an "in" several times,  I have told him "no more lies"  several times.  Maybe it is his fear of me walking away from him,  I don't know, maybe this is his way of knowing me.

So how do you trust someone, just don't trust their ability to Manipulate just as easy as it is for someone to breath.?

In two of our conversations I am expressing my feeling/input on something and he was also checking his email,  twice.  And then once I was listening to him and as I am listening to him  I am realizing that he is more intune, knows more, about this other women than he ever did me.  Is this because they are both Alcoholics, (I am not).  I asked him a question about the "why now",  and when was the last time he "made love to her".  (just to give me insight, and to see if it is manipulation I think)  and he answered,  but I did notice he did not correct me on the "love" part.  I am far enough within my healing that I am learning from our conversations for me (if that made sense).

But how do you trust 99% of it,  But don't trust the manipulation.  If I go on my gut instinct  I don't think he is manipulating me.  Maybe out of fear, but I understand that.  It's like I know he stopped by there today, if only to see his dogs, or maybe jam on his quitars (safe place for him).  But I know he will lie to me about it if I ask.  We have both changed alot.  And it is noticable to both of us,  why is it nessacary for him to still lie about the simple stuff?  Why can't that be corrected when you are working the steps?  He still needs to see a physicologist but he makes excuses.  Why?

If he does end up doing jail time ,maybe he knows he can trust me to still be there if he needed anything,  I know he trusts me that way.  He trusts that I will always be his friend.    Is the manipulation, lies, avoiding the answer, because he is an Alcoholic.????

Would really appreaciate some honest feed back,  does anyone understand what I mean???

HELP  PLEASE

And with our conversations I am finding it is helping me heal,